The determinetruth Podcast

Revelation 21:9-22:9 The New Jerusalem Part 2

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie complete their discussion of the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is the description of the people of God (us; all believers in history; OT/NT saints alike) dwelling in the presence of God. John describes our dwelling in God's presence as a great city with streets of Gold and gates of pearls. But what about the unbelievers? Where are they? Listen to see what Rob and Vinnie think. 

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Show Notes: 

NJ is the bride: described as a city; which is a temple; which is only the Holy of Holies 

12 occurrences of 12:

• 3x in 21:12: “twelve gates”; “twelve angels” “the names of the twelve tribes
• 3x in 12:14 “twelve foundation stones”; “twelve names of the twelve apostles” 
• 1x in 21:16 “12,000 stadia.” 
• 2x in 21:21 “the twelve gates are twelve pearls.” 
• 1x in 22:2, the Tree of Life has “twelve fruits.” 
• 2x in 21:17? “144 cubits” (12x12)

Twelve jewels 

They likely recall the twelve stones of the High Priest’s breastplate (Exod 28:17-20 LXX; 39:8-14)

John does not see a temple because the whole city is the temple (21:22).

Two key themes:

1. Throne of God heaven-comes down
2. The nations redeemed

Outside: (see 22:15)

• how can there be an “outside” if the NJ fills the whole earth?

 God dwelling entire creation with His people

• Eden was to expand and fill the Earth
• “Whole earth is full of His glory” Isa 6:3

22:1-5 New Jerusalem as Eden

River of the water of life is the Holy Spirit 

The Tree of Life (22:2)

There will no longer be any curse (22:3)

The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it (22:3). 

They shall see His face 22:4 (Exod 33)

His Name will be on their foreheads (22:4)

No more night (22:5)

They [His servants] will reign forever and ever (22:5; see 1:6; 5:10; 20:6)

 

Revelation 21:9-22:9 The New Jerusalem Part 1

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie continue their look at the New Jerusalem. The Holy City/New Jerusalem is the eternal dwelling place of the people of God. It is described as a city, that is a temple, but in reality, it is the people of God dwelling in the presence of God. Rob and Vinnie also discuss what is "outside" the city. Vinnie inserts a dad joke that needs help. 

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Show notes: 

The Bride/Holy City, the New Jerusalem descends 21:9-22:9

It is the Eternal dwelling place for God’s people in the presence of God on the restored earth/New Creation

12 things

1. Eden: Place of God’s presence: expands and fills the Earth
2. Temple: Dwelling of God among – people Lev 26; Ezek 37
3. City = Bride / contra Harlot (New Jerusalem = POG)
4. Economic reversal 
5. 12 uses of 12 = POG
6. Parallels account of the TW
7. Reveals the unity of the OT/NT POG
8. Parallels with Ezekiel
9. What is it going to be like? Eden restored? Work? Golf? Music? Nah!
10. What about hell? 
11. NJ = already begun 
12. What does living in accord with the NJ mean for us now!

17:1-3; 21:9-10 Two sections: each women that are cities 

Economic reversal “freely”

Parable in Luke 16 Rich man and Lazarus

Bible begins in Eden and ends in Eden 

Eden

Prophets expecting: see Isa 51:3; Ezek 36:35; 47:1-7

• Gold: 21:18, 21; Gen 2:11-12
• River of Life 22:1: Eden: “Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden”: Gen 2:10
• The Tree of Life: 22:2; Gen 2:9
• There will no longer be any curse 22:3

“Come, and I will show you” (21:9): carried “away in the Spirit” (21:10); taken “to a great and high mountain” (21:10)

• Mountains symbolized kings and kingdoms; also indicate the place of the temple. 
• Mountains also represent places of revelation. 

John’s use of hearing and seeing.

• John is told (hears) that he is going to be shown, “the Bride” (21:9): what he sees is, “the Holy City” (21:10). 

The “glory of God” (21:11) was a vital component of the temple complex. 

We might say: in 21:1-8: the Holy City as a Bride; in 21:9-22:9, the Bride is the Holy City

• But, it is not the Holy City but the temple within the Holy City 

21:11: “Her brilliance was like a precious stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper” 

• “jasper” occurs only four times in the book of Revelation (4:3; 21:11, 18, 19)

Great and high wall: 21:12-14

Holy City also corresponds to the account of the Two Witnesses. 

• “measure” only five times (11:1, 2; 21:15, 16, 17): limited to these two accounts
• “measuring rod” only three times (11:1; 21:15, 16) limited to the account of the Two Witnesses and the Holy City further establishing the link between the two.

Length, width, and height of the city are all, “12,000 stadia” (21:16)

1. Cube: = the Holy of Holies within the temple
2. 12,000 stadia corresponds to the approximate size of the Hellenistic world. 
3. Holy City/Bride = People of God;
4. The unity of the people of God. 

the Holy City represents the totality of the OT and NT people of God. 

• twelve gates have, “the names of the twelves tribes of the sons of Israel” (21:12), 
• the twelve foundation stones of the city wall have, “the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the lamb” (21:14). 
• that the walls are “144” cubits (21:17) further establishes that the Holy City represents the combined OT and NT people of God.
• the description of the Holy City, John alludes to both the 144,000 (7:3-8; 14:1-5) and the Great Multitude (7:9-17; 19:1-6). 
  • Great Multitude in 7:15-17 was a proleptic description the Holy City. 
  • The allusion to the 144,000 is evident in his reiteration of the “twelve tribes” (21:12).  

Revelation with Scot McKnight/Cody Matchett

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie interview NT scholars Scot McKnight and Cody Matchett to discuss their book, "Revelation for the Rest of Us: A Prophetic Call to Follow Jesus as a Dissident Disciple." They discuss how much of the evangelical church in the US has joined ways with Babylon. During this provocative discussion, we engage in issues of militarism, wealth, health care, and how the Church must "Follow the Lamb" as dissident disciples 

 

Revelation for the rest of us

Revelation 21:1-8 The New Creation

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie explore John's introduction to the New Creation (Rev 21:1-8). Can you imagine the day when there will be no more suffering and death? They ask, "If the New Creation has already begun in Christ and the Spirit, what does this mean for how we live today?" 

 

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Show notes

21:1-8 Introduction to the New Jerusalem 

7:14-17

Rom 8:18-2

2 Peter 3:7 “reserved for fire”

Not the dissolution but the resurrection of the creation

“there was no longer any sea” (21:1

• The “sea” is the antithesis to the divine or creation. 
• The sea is also associated with decreation.

• God separated the waters to form dry ground upon which He then created the land the Great Prostitute sat upon “many waters (17:1), which John informs us, represent the nations (17:15). 

​​Isa 62:1-5; 65:17-20; 52:1; also Gal 4:26; Phil 3:20; Heb 11:10; 12:22; 13:14.

Eternal dwelling place of God

The New Jerusalem is a temple

Hearing and Seeing: John did not see two things:

Israel is depicted as a bride finely adorned (Ezek 16:8-14) and as a mother (Hos 4:5; Isa 50:1)

Covenant promise!

“Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you. I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people (Lev 26:11-12)

“And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people (Ezek 37:26-27)

The consummation is promised in 21:3; 21:7: “I will be God to him and he himself will be my son.” 

Paul cites both Leviticus and Ezekiel and applies this promise to the people of God in Corinth (2 Cor 6:16). 

The voice from the throne also states that God will, “wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain” (21:4). 

This is the great hope in the NT! 

Revelation 20:11-15 The Great White Throne Judgment

Join Vinnie and Rob in this insightful podcast as they delve into the profound themes of judgment and works, focusing on the enigmatic passage of The Great White Throne Judgment from Revelation 20:11-15. Through thoughtful analysis and discussion, they explore the implications of judgment, the significance of works, and their relevance for Christians today. 

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Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.

Revelation 20:1-10: The Millennium Part 3

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie dive into the depths of Revelation in order to unravel the mysteries of the millennium. Join us as we dissect the intricate structure of the book, revealing how the wars described in various passages intertwine to paint a vivid picture of a present-day millennium. Don't miss out on the enlightening discussion that challenges traditional interpretations and unveils new insights into the prophetic text.

PODCAST

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Also, our goal is to keep these episodes free of charge. I do not intend to ever hide them behind a paywall. I can only do this if those of you who have been blessed by them and can afford to give ($5, $10, $25, or more/month) do so. You can give a tax-deductible contribution by following this link.

 

 

Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.

Show Notes

Millenium: 1000 years–Christ’s rule 

Bridge section 19:11-21:8: 5 units 

19:11-16 Return (descent) of Christ

21:1-8 Intro to the descent of the New Jerusalem

3 units describe the judgment of Christ’s enemies

19:17-21 Judgment of Beast and False Prophet

20:1-10 Judgment of Satan

20:11-15 Judgment of Death and Hades

The war in 9:1-19 corresponds to the war in 16:12-16, 19:17-21, & 20:7-10

1. The repetition of the phrase, “to gather them together for the war” (16:14; 19:19; 20:8). 
2. The verb “gather” occurs only five times in the book of Revelation (16:14, 16; 19:17, 19; 20:8) all five occurrences are in these three accounts of “the war”: this links the passages
3. The war is waged by:

• “the war” which Satan wages upon his release 20:7 is waged by “the nations” who are “in the four corners of the earth” (20:8) 
• In 16:14, John says that “the war” is waged by, “the kings of the inhabited world.” 
• In 19:19, he says that “the war” is waged by, “the kings of the earth and their armies.”

4. Each of the accounts of “the war” is linked by the explicit indication that the enemies of Christ and the people of God are the Dragon (Satan), the Beast, and/or the False Prophet.

• In 16:12-16 all three are mentioned as instigators in “the war” (16:13). Then, 
• In 19:17-21, the Beast and the False Prophet wage war against Christ and His armies (19:19). 

Revelation 20:1-10: The Millenium Part 2

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie continue a deep dive into Revelation's most enigmatic passage (Rev 20:1-10) and the millennium. Rob argues that understanding Revelation 9:1-19 (6th and 7th Trumpets) is crucial for interpreting Chapter 20 and the millenium. Join us as we unravel these complex biblical texts and discuss their implications for modern faith and theology. 

 

Revelation 20:1-10 The Millenium: part 1

Welcome to our latest episode of the Determinetruth podcast. In this episode, Rob and Vinnie dive deep into Revelation 20 and the intriguing concept of the millennium. Exploring the three main views of the millennium, we uncover why this topic holds significance for believers today. Emphasizing the present reign of Christ, we dissect the structure of Revelation 20 and its implications for our interpretation. Moreover, we ponder Jesus' binding of Satan in Mark 3 and its potential influence on understanding Revelation 20. Tune in for a captivating discussion that promises fresh insights into this complex biblical passage.

PODCAST

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Also, our goal is to keep these episodes free of charge. I do not intend to ever hide them behind a paywall. I can only do this if those of you who have been blessed by them and can afford to give ($5, $10, $25, or more/month) do so. You can give a tax-deductible contribution by following this link.

 

 

Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.

Show Notes

20:1-10

2 Thess 2:5; 1 John 2:18

Rev 11:7; 14:8

There are 3 diff views on the millennium: 

When does the millennium occur? 

Q: when does the 2^nd Coming happen with regard to the millennium?

1. Premillennialism: 2^nd Coming happens before the millenium: Christ literally reigns on earth for a 1,000 years 
2. Postmillennialism: 2^nd Coming happens after the millenium: Christ literally reigns on earth for a 1,000 years: Millennium is likely still future
3. Amillennialism: 2^nd Coming happens after the millenium: Christ presently rules from heaven through His people

One of the key questions here is what does it mean that Satan is bound

See: Mark 3:20-30

Chronology?

“The war” occurs before the return of Christ in 16:12-16 but in 19:17-21 & 20:7-10 it occurs after return of Christ; And in 20:7-10 it occurs after the 1000 years; but in 16:12-16 & 19:17-21 it occurs before the 1000 yrs

20:1-3 introduces us to Satan—as if we didn’t know who he even was

20:4-6 John “interrupts” the account of the destruction of Satan (20:1-3, 7-10) with an account of the victorious people of God (20:4-6). 

20:7 then resumes the narrative that was left off in 20:3 

20:4-6 seems like an interruption

The repeated use of a “thousand” (20:2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7).

It is my suggestion that the binding of Satan represents a present reality

This makes sense in that the binding was “so that” he can’t deceive the nations 

The suffering of the people of God corresponds to the present activity of Satan?

Revelation 19:11-16 The Second Coming of Christ

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie explore Revelation 19:11-16, unpacking the profound implications of the Second Coming of Christ. With insightful commentary and thoughtful analysis, they navigate the intricate symbolism and theological significance of this pivotal moment in Christian eschatology.

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Also, our goal is to keep these episodes free of charge. I do not intend to ever hide them behind a paywall. I can only do this if those of you who have been blessed by them and can afford to give ($5, $10, $25, or more/month) do so. You can give a tax-deductible contribution by following this link.

 

 

Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.

Show Notes

19:11-21:8 Bridge section: sits in the middle of the accounts of the two women

The Great Prostitute (17:1-19:10) and the Bride (21:9-22:9)

 

Four clearly marked sections in the Apocalypse: 1:9-3:22; 4:1-16:21; 17:1-19:10; 21:9-22:9

1:9-10; 4:1-2; 17:1-3; 21:9-10: “come”; “In the spirit”; Location change 

I have labeled 19:11-21:8 as a “fifth bridge section”—even though chronologically it is the fourth section in the Apocalypse.

Because it is not marked as one of the 4 main scenes. but it is clearly a distinct section 

In the narrative, it seems like the Holy city can’t descend because the enemies of Christ/people of God have not been judged

This means that before the Holy City/New Jerusalem descends, Christ must first descend and judge the enemies of God (beast, FP, Dragon, Death/Hades).

This “bridge section” (19:11-21:9) is comprised of five units. 

• The 1^st unit (19:11-16) Christ descends –judge
• The 5^th (final) unit (21:1-8) the NJ introduced
• The middle 3 are clearly parallel: they describe the judgment of the enemies of Christ in the reverse order in which they were introduced in the narrative.
  • 19:17-21 Beast and FP (19:20b)
  • 20:1-10 Satan (20:10)
  • 20:11-15 Death and Hades (20:14)

The descent of Christ (19:11-16)

• White horse: Divine warrior
• “Faithful and True” (see 3:14)
• Eyes are like a flame of fire see (1:14). That His “eyes are like a flame of fire” indicates the presence of God and His authority as judge. 
• He has many “diadems”
  • Satan/Dragon 12:3
  • Beast 13:1
• A Name which no one knows
• Garment dipped in blood (see Isa 63:1-3)
• Tramples the wine press of the wrath of God
  • “trampled”: 3x 11:2; 14:20; 19:15
• Word of God
  • “Word of God” 7x (1:2, 9; 6:9; 17:17; 19:9, 13; 20:4)

The armies that are in heaven were following Him (19:14)

• Sharp sword
• He Himself will shepherd them with the rod of iron
  • LXX rendering of Ps 2:9
• Jesus tramples the wine press
• God, the Almighty
  • “Lord God, Almighty” 7x (1:8; 4:8; 11:17; 15:3; 16:7; 19:6; 21:22). 
  • “God, the Almighty”  2x (16:14; 19:15)
• He has on His garment and on His thigh a name written: “King of kings and Lord of lords”
  • Title for God alone: (Deut 10:17; 1 Tim 6:15)

Announcement for Google Podcast/Google Play users

Brief announcement. Apr 2, 2024 Google Podcast/Google Play is going away. 

The determinetruth podcast is available on many other platforms: 

Podean, ITunes, Spotify. 

the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.