The determinetruth Podcast

Revelation with Tremper Longman Part 1

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie begin a conversation with OT scholar Tremper Longman. Tremper has written a fantastic commentary titled "Reading Revelation Through OT Eyes." 

Dr. Tremper Longman III (B.A. Ohio Wesleyan University; M.Div. Westminster Theological

Seminary; M.Phil. and Ph.D. Yale University) is Distinguished Scholar and Professor Emeritus

of Biblical Studies at Westmont College. He has written over thirty-five books including

commentaries on Genesis, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Daniel, Nahum, and Revelation. Among his most recent books include Confronting Old Testament Controversies: Pressing Questions about Evolution, Sexuality, History and Violence and Revelation through Old Testament Eyes. His book The Old Testament as Literature just appeared with Baker Books. He is also Senior Translator of the New Living Translation. He is married to Alice and has three sons and seven granddaughters, and a grandson. He and Alice now live in Alexandria, Virginia.

Some of his books include: 

Reading Revelation through OT Eyes

Confronting OT Controversies

the Bible and the Ballot

Daniel NIVAC

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Finally, we just want to say thank you for listening in and supporting the work of determinetruth. If you have any questions that you would like us to address, we would love to hear them. Use the contact page on Determinetruth.com

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Revelation: Interview with Warren Carter

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie discuss the book of Revelation, empire, and the Church with renowned NT scholar Warren Carter! 

Here are some links to Warren's books

The Roman Empire and the NT

Seven Events that shaped the NT world

What does Revelation Reveal?

PODCAST

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Revelation 22 The End

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie discuss Revelation's Epilogue (22:6-21). We consider: what does it mean that these things will "soon take place"?; The promises of Blessing; the exhortation to "come"; and the closing, "Come, Lord Jesus." 

 

PODCAST

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Finally, we just want to say thank you for listening in and supporting the work of determinetruth. If you have any questions that you would like us to address, we would love to hear them. Use the contact page on Determinetruth.com

If you have been blessed by these episodes, we want to encourage you to make sure you follow this podcast, share it with others, and post a review. By posting a review you make it easier for others to find the podcast on Google searches.

Show Notes: 

“Faithful and true” (3:14; 19:11; 21:5; 22:6). 

What must take place soon (22:6)

• “in the latter days” (Dan 2:28) or “in the future” (Dan 2:29, 45), has become for John, “what must take place soon” (1:1; 22:6). 

The promise of blessing for, “the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book”

22:8-9 John attempts to worship the angel

Do not seal up these words:  “because the time is near” (22:10; 1:3; Dan 12:4).

“The one who does wrong let him still do wrong, the one who is unclean let him still be unclean, the one who is righteous let him still do righteousness, and let the one who is holy let him still be holy” (22:11; Dan 12:10)

• John is encouraging it to happen in that it represents a fulfillment of prophesy.?

Jesus declares that He is, “the Alpha and the Omega” (22:13). Father? Each time the title expands: 

-                 1:8 Alpha and Omega

-                 21:6 Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End

-                 22:13 Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning & End

The “ones who wash their robes” are blessed and “they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city” (22:14).

• “washed” only twice in the book of Revelation: the other is in 7:14 

“outside” (22:15): What does it mean “outside”

• “outside” means in the least, “not in the Holy City.” 

Jesus’ self-identification “I am the root and the descendant of David” (22:16). 

Jesus also declares that He is “the bright morning star” (22:16).

Four commands/exhortations: which center on “Come”

• “The Spirit and the Bride” say, “Come.” 
• “the one who hears” is exhorted to say, “Come.” 
• “the one who is thirsty” to “come” (22:17; Isa 55:1)
• “let them take freely the gift of the water of life” (22:17). 

The angel exhorts, “everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book” (22:18). 

• First, “If anyone adds to them [the words of the book], God will add to them the plagues that are written in this book” (22:18). 
• Second, “and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away their part in the Tree of Life and from the Holy City that are written in this book” (22:19)

“I am coming soon” (22:20). 

“Amen. Come, Lord Jesus” (22:20). 

It is framed as a letter

“grace” occurs only two times in the entire book of Revelation: here and in 1:4

Revelation 21:9-22:9 The New Jerusalem Part 2

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie complete their discussion of the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is the description of the people of God (us; all believers in history; OT/NT saints alike) dwelling in the presence of God. John describes our dwelling in God's presence as a great city with streets of Gold and gates of pearls. But what about the unbelievers? Where are they? Listen to see what Rob and Vinnie think. 

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Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.

Show Notes: 

NJ is the bride: described as a city; which is a temple; which is only the Holy of Holies 

12 occurrences of 12:

• 3x in 21:12: “twelve gates”; “twelve angels” “the names of the twelve tribes
• 3x in 12:14 “twelve foundation stones”; “twelve names of the twelve apostles” 
• 1x in 21:16 “12,000 stadia.” 
• 2x in 21:21 “the twelve gates are twelve pearls.” 
• 1x in 22:2, the Tree of Life has “twelve fruits.” 
• 2x in 21:17? “144 cubits” (12x12)

Twelve jewels 

They likely recall the twelve stones of the High Priest’s breastplate (Exod 28:17-20 LXX; 39:8-14)

John does not see a temple because the whole city is the temple (21:22).

Two key themes:

1. Throne of God heaven-comes down
2. The nations redeemed

Outside: (see 22:15)

• how can there be an “outside” if the NJ fills the whole earth?

 God dwelling entire creation with His people

• Eden was to expand and fill the Earth
• “Whole earth is full of His glory” Isa 6:3

22:1-5 New Jerusalem as Eden

River of the water of life is the Holy Spirit 

The Tree of Life (22:2)

There will no longer be any curse (22:3)

The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it (22:3). 

They shall see His face 22:4 (Exod 33)

His Name will be on their foreheads (22:4)

No more night (22:5)

They [His servants] will reign forever and ever (22:5; see 1:6; 5:10; 20:6)

 

Revelation 21:9-22:9 The New Jerusalem Part 1

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie continue their look at the New Jerusalem. The Holy City/New Jerusalem is the eternal dwelling place of the people of God. It is described as a city, that is a temple, but in reality, it is the people of God dwelling in the presence of God. Rob and Vinnie also discuss what is "outside" the city. Vinnie inserts a dad joke that needs help. 

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Show notes: 

The Bride/Holy City, the New Jerusalem descends 21:9-22:9

It is the Eternal dwelling place for God’s people in the presence of God on the restored earth/New Creation

12 things

1. Eden: Place of God’s presence: expands and fills the Earth
2. Temple: Dwelling of God among – people Lev 26; Ezek 37
3. City = Bride / contra Harlot (New Jerusalem = POG)
4. Economic reversal 
5. 12 uses of 12 = POG
6. Parallels account of the TW
7. Reveals the unity of the OT/NT POG
8. Parallels with Ezekiel
9. What is it going to be like? Eden restored? Work? Golf? Music? Nah!
10. What about hell? 
11. NJ = already begun 
12. What does living in accord with the NJ mean for us now!

17:1-3; 21:9-10 Two sections: each women that are cities 

Economic reversal “freely”

Parable in Luke 16 Rich man and Lazarus

Bible begins in Eden and ends in Eden 

Eden

Prophets expecting: see Isa 51:3; Ezek 36:35; 47:1-7

• Gold: 21:18, 21; Gen 2:11-12
• River of Life 22:1: Eden: “Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden”: Gen 2:10
• The Tree of Life: 22:2; Gen 2:9
• There will no longer be any curse 22:3

“Come, and I will show you” (21:9): carried “away in the Spirit” (21:10); taken “to a great and high mountain” (21:10)

• Mountains symbolized kings and kingdoms; also indicate the place of the temple. 
• Mountains also represent places of revelation. 

John’s use of hearing and seeing.

• John is told (hears) that he is going to be shown, “the Bride” (21:9): what he sees is, “the Holy City” (21:10). 

The “glory of God” (21:11) was a vital component of the temple complex. 

We might say: in 21:1-8: the Holy City as a Bride; in 21:9-22:9, the Bride is the Holy City

• But, it is not the Holy City but the temple within the Holy City 

21:11: “Her brilliance was like a precious stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper” 

• “jasper” occurs only four times in the book of Revelation (4:3; 21:11, 18, 19)

Great and high wall: 21:12-14

Holy City also corresponds to the account of the Two Witnesses. 

• “measure” only five times (11:1, 2; 21:15, 16, 17): limited to these two accounts
• “measuring rod” only three times (11:1; 21:15, 16) limited to the account of the Two Witnesses and the Holy City further establishing the link between the two.

Length, width, and height of the city are all, “12,000 stadia” (21:16)

1. Cube: = the Holy of Holies within the temple
2. 12,000 stadia corresponds to the approximate size of the Hellenistic world. 
3. Holy City/Bride = People of God;
4. The unity of the people of God. 

the Holy City represents the totality of the OT and NT people of God. 

• twelve gates have, “the names of the twelves tribes of the sons of Israel” (21:12), 
• the twelve foundation stones of the city wall have, “the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the lamb” (21:14). 
• that the walls are “144” cubits (21:17) further establishes that the Holy City represents the combined OT and NT people of God.
• the description of the Holy City, John alludes to both the 144,000 (7:3-8; 14:1-5) and the Great Multitude (7:9-17; 19:1-6). 
  • Great Multitude in 7:15-17 was a proleptic description the Holy City. 
  • The allusion to the 144,000 is evident in his reiteration of the “twelve tribes” (21:12).  

Revelation with Scot McKnight/Cody Matchett

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie interview NT scholars Scot McKnight and Cody Matchett to discuss their book, "Revelation for the Rest of Us: A Prophetic Call to Follow Jesus as a Dissident Disciple." They discuss how much of the evangelical church in the US has joined ways with Babylon. During this provocative discussion, we engage in issues of militarism, wealth, health care, and how the Church must "Follow the Lamb" as dissident disciples 

 

Revelation for the rest of us

Revelation 21:1-8 The New Creation

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie explore John's introduction to the New Creation (Rev 21:1-8). Can you imagine the day when there will be no more suffering and death? They ask, "If the New Creation has already begun in Christ and the Spirit, what does this mean for how we live today?" 

 

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Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.

Show notes

21:1-8 Introduction to the New Jerusalem 

7:14-17

Rom 8:18-2

2 Peter 3:7 “reserved for fire”

Not the dissolution but the resurrection of the creation

“there was no longer any sea” (21:1

• The “sea” is the antithesis to the divine or creation. 
• The sea is also associated with decreation.

• God separated the waters to form dry ground upon which He then created the land the Great Prostitute sat upon “many waters (17:1), which John informs us, represent the nations (17:15). 

​​Isa 62:1-5; 65:17-20; 52:1; also Gal 4:26; Phil 3:20; Heb 11:10; 12:22; 13:14.

Eternal dwelling place of God

The New Jerusalem is a temple

Hearing and Seeing: John did not see two things:

Israel is depicted as a bride finely adorned (Ezek 16:8-14) and as a mother (Hos 4:5; Isa 50:1)

Covenant promise!

“Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you. I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people (Lev 26:11-12)

“And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people (Ezek 37:26-27)

The consummation is promised in 21:3; 21:7: “I will be God to him and he himself will be my son.” 

Paul cites both Leviticus and Ezekiel and applies this promise to the people of God in Corinth (2 Cor 6:16). 

The voice from the throne also states that God will, “wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain” (21:4). 

This is the great hope in the NT! 

Revelation 20:11-15 The Great White Throne Judgment

Join Vinnie and Rob in this insightful podcast as they delve into the profound themes of judgment and works, focusing on the enigmatic passage of The Great White Throne Judgment from Revelation 20:11-15. Through thoughtful analysis and discussion, they explore the implications of judgment, the significance of works, and their relevance for Christians today. 

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Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.

Revelation 20:1-10: The Millennium Part 3

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie dive into the depths of Revelation in order to unravel the mysteries of the millennium. Join us as we dissect the intricate structure of the book, revealing how the wars described in various passages intertwine to paint a vivid picture of a present-day millennium. Don't miss out on the enlightening discussion that challenges traditional interpretations and unveils new insights into the prophetic text.

PODCAST

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Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.

Show Notes

Millenium: 1000 years–Christ’s rule 

Bridge section 19:11-21:8: 5 units 

19:11-16 Return (descent) of Christ

21:1-8 Intro to the descent of the New Jerusalem

3 units describe the judgment of Christ’s enemies

19:17-21 Judgment of Beast and False Prophet

20:1-10 Judgment of Satan

20:11-15 Judgment of Death and Hades

The war in 9:1-19 corresponds to the war in 16:12-16, 19:17-21, & 20:7-10

1. The repetition of the phrase, “to gather them together for the war” (16:14; 19:19; 20:8). 
2. The verb “gather” occurs only five times in the book of Revelation (16:14, 16; 19:17, 19; 20:8) all five occurrences are in these three accounts of “the war”: this links the passages
3. The war is waged by:

• “the war” which Satan wages upon his release 20:7 is waged by “the nations” who are “in the four corners of the earth” (20:8) 
• In 16:14, John says that “the war” is waged by, “the kings of the inhabited world.” 
• In 19:19, he says that “the war” is waged by, “the kings of the earth and their armies.”

4. Each of the accounts of “the war” is linked by the explicit indication that the enemies of Christ and the people of God are the Dragon (Satan), the Beast, and/or the False Prophet.

• In 16:12-16 all three are mentioned as instigators in “the war” (16:13). Then, 
• In 19:17-21, the Beast and the False Prophet wage war against Christ and His armies (19:19). 

Revelation 20:1-10: The Millenium Part 2

In this episode, Rob and Vinnie continue a deep dive into Revelation's most enigmatic passage (Rev 20:1-10) and the millennium. Rob argues that understanding Revelation 9:1-19 (6th and 7th Trumpets) is crucial for interpreting Chapter 20 and the millenium. Join us as we unravel these complex biblical texts and discuss their implications for modern faith and theology.